PD ROM 1/PD ROM Volume I - Macintosh Software from BMUG (1988).iso/Electronic Messages/USEnet Digests/USEnet Vol. 3/USEnet 3.064

Text File | 1988-04-08 | 29.1 KB | 753 lines | [TEXT/ttxt]

29-Sep-87 10:03:26-PDT,30530;000000000001
Date: Sat 5 Sep 87 10:39:56-GMT
From: Jeff Shulman <SHULMAN@SDR>
Subject: Usenet Mac Digest V3 #64

Usenet Mac Digest     Saturday, September 5, 1987    Volume 3 : Issue 64

Today's Topics:
     GCC Personal Laser Printer
     Bug in LSC or the transcendental functions package?
     Query: Varityper VT600 plain paper typesetter
     Mac SE Squeal
     4th Dimension comments
     Another MS Word 3.01 Bug
     SANE help
     Rotation Algorithm needed
     Re: 4th Dimension comments
     Hypercard Reports
     Re: Learning Japanese
     Documentation on HyperCard External Commands
     512KE Accelerators?
     Re: Trivial SE question
     VersaTerm in background under MultiFinder
     Re: Rotation Algorithm needed
     Re: Mac <-> VMEbus ??
     Excel memory limits
     Bug in TMON 2.8
     SIMM RAM for the MacII
     Re: HyperCard Availability
     Humble Expert System Shell
     Re: Rotation Algorithm needed

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Vann)
Subject: GCC Personal Laser Printer
Date: 27 Aug 87 04:39:40 GMT
Organization: Analysts International Corp; Chicago Branch

For those of you who might be interested, here are a few impressions
regarding the new QuickDraw based printer from General Computer.

(1) Its diminutive size makes it perfect for a single user. It comes
    with a tilted tray which holds about 60 sheets or so. There is also a
    provision for manually feeding sheets and envelopes for specific purposes.

(2) You might want to upgrade the physical memory of your machine to at
    least 2Meg. There are one or two programs which force the printer to leave
    the interactive printing mode. You are notified that you will have to
    print the page(s) later using their batch facility. Again not a big
    problem for a single user, who does NOT have high volume.

(3) Fonts are quite nice. In my opinion as nice as those on the LW Plus.
    In addition there is none of the overhead incurred from loading them
    into RAM as on the LW Plus when using other than those embedded in ROM.
    You can have as many as you have disk space for.

(4) Prints MacPaint type pictures better than the LW. Does a very good
    job on MacDraw images as well. Have not as yet tried the output from a
    package such as Illustrator. It is claimed that it will work with
    Illustrator but will not do some of the fancier things such as "fountaining". Again
    this is a printer for someone who wants the clarity of laser printed text
    but also wants to retain graphic capability (albeit limited) for various
    reasons.

(5) I have tried it with almost all of the packages I own, and it works
    pretty much flawlessly. There is a list of known problems. But don't let
    this fact put you off. Try it out. The price makes its limitations matter
    a bit less.

(6) It currently ownly runs off a SCSI port, but there is a provision to
    have it access the serial port. When this is done you will have to use a
    RAM cartridge for which there is a slot. There are two SCSI ports on the
    printer.

All in all I am very happy with the product. It provided an alternative
to the pricey LW's and still gives me the features I wanted most anyway.
Ciao!

--
                Eric Geoffrey Vann
                Analysts International (Chicago Branch)
                [phone]
                ..!ihnp4!aicchi!egv


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (benjamin Waldman)
Subject: Bug in LSC or the transcendental functions package?
Date: 27 Aug 87 15:47:07 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab Harvard, Cambridge, MA

Yesterday, I came across what I think is a bug in either LightSpeed C or
the transcendental functions package.

After I generate a NAN(033) (illegal argument to trig function), the
tangent function seems to stop working (returns a bad value), even
though sine and cosine continue to work properly.

My code looked something like this:

double a=1;
double b=0;
double c;

printf("%f %f %f\n",sin(PI/4),tan(0),tan(PI/4));  /* I get correct answers */
c=a/b;  /* c now is an infinity bit pattern */
printf("%f %f\n",c,sin(c)); /* outputs   INF NAN(033) */
printf("%f %f %f\n",sin(PI/4),tan(0),tan(PI/4));

For this last line, I get the correct answer for sine, but the tangents
just give question marks, e.g. the output was .7071etc. ? ?.

Why would this happen?  There is a bug somewhere, obviously.  I am using
LSC v2.01, and System 2.something (because I'm using an unenhanced 512K
mac). Is this something that has been corrected in a later system?

                Thanks
                 Ben Waldman

[e-mail]    [e-mail]
[e-mail]        [e-mail] ..{seismo, harpo, ihnp4,
linus, allegra, ut-sally}!harvard!husc4!waldman


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (David Dalton)
Subject: Query: Varityper VT600 plain paper typesetter
Date: 27 Aug 87 16:09:42 GMT
Organization: SF Writers' Network, Bethania, NC

Does anyone have any experience with the Varityper VT600 plain paper
typesetter? Even though they call it a typesetter, it appears to be
essentially a high-resolution laser printer with 600x600 resolution,
M68020 controller, and 6 megs of RAM. It understands Postscript and has
an AppleTalk interface, so it appears to be a direct high-resolution
alternative to the LaserWriter. My employer (a newspaper) is setting up
a Macintosh graphics system, and we plan to take a look at this machine.
All we've seen so far, though, is the promotion literature.

--
David Dalton     ihnp4!gladys!david  -or-  mtune!gladys!david
____________    P.O. Box 256, Bethania, NC 27010


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mark F. Vita)
Subject: Mac SE Squeal
Date: 27 Aug 87 17:33:11 GMT
Organization: General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY

My two-floppy Mac SE has started doing a strange thing recently. About a
minute or so after powering up the machine, it emits a bizarre
high-pitched squeal.  The sound is about two seconds in duration, and is
somewhat reminiscent of fingernails on a chalkboard (well, not quite
that bad, but close).

I first noticed this behavior about two weeks ago (well, actually, this
was when I first realized that it was indeed the Mac that was producing
the noise.)  Have anyone else had this problem?  Anyone know what might
be causing it?  Is it worth bringing to a dealer (cringe) for service?
There's absolutely nothing functionally wrong with the machine (that I
can tell, anyways).

I did bring the machine in several weeks ago for service -- my screen
was out-of-focus in the corners.  I wonder if the solving that problem
could have somehow caused this one....?

Anyways, thanks in advance for any clues/advice you can provide...
Mark Vita                              ARPA: [e-mail]
General Electric Company               UUCP: [e-mail]
Corporate R & D                              [e-mail]
Schenectady, NY

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Daniel Milliron)
Subject: 4th Dimension comments
Date: 27 Aug 87 16:21:20 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

I have been using 4th Dimension from Acius, Inc. for the past couple
weeks and have two comments for the net -- one good, one bad.

1. First the Good:  4th Dimension is THE best database for the Mac.  I
   have seen nearly all the others and 4D beats them in power, reliability,
   and ease of use (compared to the others as a group and not individually).
   4D is not perfect, however.  I have made a list of ~8 not-terribly-important
   bug-like "features" I have come across.  I have another list of ~6
   enhancements I would appreciate seeing.  BTW, Acius is working on the next
   version and they welcome feedback, so I am sending them my lists.

2. The Bad:  Acius has a policy that I would like to change via pressure
   from the network (if there is such a thing).  I discovered this policy
   when I phoned their tech support line.  Here's what happened:

   I had been having a problem getting some 4D-language procedures I had
   written to work.  Not only were the results not what I expected, but
   the program would crash with "ID=02" illegal-odd-address errors.  The
   techie at Acius told me that I was using a technique that was against the
   rules: changing the current record selection or current record pointer from
   within a layout procedure (it's OK from within a global procedure).  This
   rule is non-intuitive: there is no obvious reason for it.  I asked where that
   rule was, because in my nearly-four-times-thoroughly reading of the
   manuals I had not seen it.  He read it to me verbatim over the phone and said
   it was in the Developers' Notes.  [Explanation: the average purchaser of 4D
   ($699 retail) is considered an end user.  For $695 extra, you can become a
   registered developer, entitling you to the Developers' Notes, a
   run-time environment for custom applications (only necessary if you are
   selling 4D-based applications), and 50%-off the run-time libraries (object
   code enhancements).]  I told the techie that I was not a "Developer" and
   so I do not have the Notes.  No problem, he said, beecause they are
   available on CompuServe.  I don't subscribe to CompuServe either, so I am
   S.O.L.

   The bottom line is this:  Acius is selling you a product and not
   giving all the necessary documentation.  In this case I was not told about
   an obscure but very important rule about designing procedures.  Not
   getting all the documentation isn't so bad: it happens all the time with new
   software -- things get left out of the original versions of the
   manuals. What stinks is that Acius wants me to pay $695 or subscribe to an
   information service instead of supporting me with manual updates like
   all the other nice software publishers do.

   Speaking of their support, Acius's technical staff is always busy.
   One time it took almost a week to get a phone call back.  The staff can be
   cocky and sarcastic, but then, so am I, so who cares.  They should staff the
   phones more, especially as their product sees a larger user population.
   They should also provide a toll-free number.

[ Moderators Note:  I found the Acius technical support staff to be friendly
and courteous.  When I call they are always busy but they have been returning
my calls within an hour.  I will have more to say about 4D soon. - Jeff ]

All in all, I love 4D and enjoy using it.  I recommend it highly.  But
if other users feel the same way about this policy I described, let's
let them know. Their cockiness may make it harder to get policy changes,
since they know they have the best product on the market and that the
competition is way behind.

Dan Milliron
Tektronix, Inc.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Bill Jefferys)
Subject: Another MS Word 3.01 Bug
Date: 28 Aug 87 14:31:02 GMT
Organization: UTexas Computation Center, Austin, Texas

Has anyone noticed the following bug in MS Word v. 3.01? (It wasn't in
v. 3.0.)

When printing a document with several sections, Word only prints the
last section as the default. To get it to print all of the document, you
have to explicitly spell it out in the "Page Setup" box.

Is there a better workaround?

This is extraordinarily annoying to me, and I hope  Microsoft fixes it
and gets it out to the users soon.

Bill Jefferys


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (group Qemp)
Subject: SANE help
Date: 28 Aug 87 13:36:01 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab Harvard, Cambridge, MA

Inside Mac IV (p. 69) describes (new) SANE routines to scan and convert
ASCII strings to binary numbers as documented in the Apple Numerics
Manual.  A call to Addison-Wesley suggests that the revised version of
the manual is not due out until March, 1988.  Does anyone know how to
get this information now?

Also inSANE, does SANE check to see if there is a coprocessor and
automatically take advantage of it if so?

How can I obtain documentation on pop up menus and hierarchical menus?

Finally, is there any canned software which extends the list manager to
variable-width columns or must one begin again from scratch?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Peter Saeta (617-495-9616)


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (J.T. Teh)
Subject: Rotation Algorithm needed
Date: 28 Aug 87 02:46:10 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, Melbourne Uni, Australia

I need a rotation algorithm that will allow me to rotate the contents of
a bounding rectangle at a given angle. Currently, I am using the
standard algorithm of rotating the point around the origin with
    [ cosX -sinX ][ x ]
    [ sinX  cosX ][ y ]
but this causes the resultant image to have "holes"
in it if I am rotating a filled image (with black). Each set pixel in
the bounding rectangle is rotated in this fashion and is very tedious as
each row of pixels has to  be scanned. I know that this is a very slow
method but I am currently stuck with it for want of a better method.

The free rotation method used in SuperPaint does not have this problem
and I would like to know how those guys did it.

I am using the rotation as part of an Honours Project application in
visual recognition and would appreciate it greatly if somebody could
mail me a better algorithm. If there is anyone else who would be
interested in such an algorithm, I will post the suggested algorithms on
the news.

Thanks in advance.

J.T. Teh
===========================
UUCP:    {seismo,mcvax,ukc,ubc-vision}!mulga!jteh
ARPA:    [e-mail]
CSNET:    jteh%mulga.oz@australia

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (S. Michaele)
Subject: Re: 4th Dimension comments
Date: 28 Aug 87 19:35:30 GMT
Organization: AT&T CSEd/CET, Piscataway, N.J.

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Daniel Milliron)
writes:
>
> I have been using 4th Dimension from Acius, Inc. for the past couple weeks
> and have two comments for the net -- one good, one bad.
>
> 1. First the Good:  ...

I certainly agree with you on this point, 4D is the best available. At
the recent MacWorld Expo Adam Greene held a seminar showing the
capabilities of 4D, Omnis 3+, Double Helix, and dBASE Mac, 4D certainly
gets my vote as the most powerful, flexible, etc.  In addition, like you
I've had my copy of 4D for a couple of weeks and am very impressed with
its combination of power and ease of use.  There are certainly some
things I'd like to change (moving back and forth between layouts, layout
procedures, and global procedures can be a pain) but overall I'm a very
satisfied customer.

> 2. The Bad:  ...

It is not unusual in the industry to charge extra for an extra measure
of support from a software publisher.  In addition many companies make
available additional information to users of their products through
technical notes that usually have a limited distribution as opposed to
being sent to every purchaser of the product (Note that Apple tech.
notes are available through APDA for a fee or on many on-line services).

The registered developer program has several benefits beyond the
publishing of technical notes, these include:

    o  50% discount on up to 5 copies of 4D
    o  50% discount on runtime modules
    o  a monthly mailing of tech notes, 4D news, and special offers
    o  unlimited tech support via phone, MCI Mail, or Applelink
    o  free upgrades or enhancements to 4D
    o  invitations to 4D developer training sessions

As mentioned in your article Acius does make their tech notes available
through Compuserve, so you don't have to join their program to obtain
them. The documentation that comes with 4D is very complete although not
always as clear as I would like in certain areas. To suggest that Acius
supplement their documentation with the information in the technical
notes for every purchaser of 4D seems unnecessary.  I personally know of
no software publisher sending free monthly documentation updates to
their registered owners.

Regarding the turnaround time for getting your technical question
answered by Acius, I haven't had the need to give them a call yet
(although I have been having a problem in a layout procedure that I'd
like to discuss with them), so I can't really comment on their telephone
support or their 'cockiness' as you put it. However, Guy Kawasaki, at
MacWorld did mention that what Acius would like to have is 'fans' using
their product, not just customers, so if there is a problem in obtaining
tech support I imagine Acius would be willing to listen to any
complaints and take some appropriate action.

                        Steve Michaele @ AT&T

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect those
        of my employer, those involved in the contra-gate scandal, or
        anyone else who might be offended by them.

        I have no direct connection with Acius, Inc. aside from being
        a satisfied customer and a member of their developer support
        program.


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sho Kuwamoto)
Subject: Hypercard Reports
Date: 29 Aug 87 08:56:43 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology

Does anyone know if it is possible to get Hypercard to print reports in
a font other than Geneva?  (I'm just guessing it's Geneva.  I printed it
on a LaserWriter, and I didn't bother to check it by disabling font
substitution)

                        -Sho


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sho Kuwamoto)
Subject: Re: Learning Japanese
Date: 29 Aug 87 09:00:12 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology

Does anybody have any experience with the Kanji font used on the Mac? In
particular, I would like to know how good it looks (Do they use it in
menus and everything?  Jeez)

                        -Sho


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dan Winkler)
Subject: Documentation on HyperCard External Commands
Date: 29 Aug 87 05:29:17 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, USA

Ted Kaehler has put together a disk of interfaces, examples, and
documentation explaining how to use HyperCard external commands and
functions.  The disk is available now from APDA and is called
"HyperCard's Magic Hooks".


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mike Khaw)
Subject: 512KE Accelerators?
Date: 30 Aug 87 04:24:23 GMT
Organization: Teknowledge, Inc., Palo Alto CA

1) whatever happened to Novy and Ryad, who both came out with 68020
   add-ons before the SE and II were announced?

2) I have a 512KE which is an upgrade from one of the early 128K Macs,
   so I'm concerned that its power supply isn't up to memory-expansion
   and/or accelerator boards -- so I'm more interested in ones that add
   a power supply.  Of the ones I know about, only Levco's Prodigy (Prime?),
   MacMemory's TurboMax, and Novy's board offer/include an extra power
   supply.  What about the others?

Mike Khaw
--
internet:  [e-mail]
usenet:       {hplabs|sun|ucbvax|decwrl|sri-unix}!mkhaw%teknowledge-vaxc.arpa
USnail:       Teknowledge Inc, 1850 Embarcadero Rd, POB 10119, Palo Alto, CA 94303


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (J. P. Jenal)
Subject: Re: Trivial SE question
Date: 30 Aug 87 06:39:53 GMT
Organization: Mayfield Senior School, Pasadena, CA

I have also been having problems w/my new SE.  In particular, whichever
DA runs first after a reboot works ok but other DAs then are hosed over.
Ex., if Fade-To-Black has cleared the screen, using other DAs like Tops
will complain about not being able to find enough memory.  Or worse yet,
I will be asked to insert my hard disk!  Any ideas as to what is causing
this?  I am running Finder 5.5 and System 4.1  Any help would be
appreciated.


Cheers...

    Jim Jenal        (aka ...!scgvaxd!mss!jpj)
    Mayfield Senior School    ( "  ...!ihnp4!mss!jpj)


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Marc Hannah)
Subject: VersaTerm in background under MultiFinder
Date: 31 Aug 87 01:22:21 GMT
Organization: Stanford University


   I thought both current VersaTerm users and other people who do
terminal  emulation would be excited to know that the latest release of
VersaTerm supports full operation in background under MultiFinder. This
means that you can receive information from the remote system exactly as
if you were running in the foreground. This support includes full file
transfer either to or from your remote system in background. VersaTerm
under Multifinder includes many nice touches including automatic
zoomdown of the terminal window when transfering files so you can easily
click in the application  you wish to work with when you are transfering
files. I've grown accustomed to having VersaTerm connected to our
mainframe at all times so if I receive mail or interactive messages from
other users, I get the usual beep when they arrive (just like in the
foreground) and I can click in the VersaTerm window, check the new
information, then click back in the other application and go back to
work. The new versions which support MultiFinder in this method of
operation are VersaTerm 3.1 and VersaTerm Pro 2.1. It is just yet
another reason to go with VersaTerm in my opinion.
   I don't want to add to the debate about multitasking here but this is
multitasking if you ask me. It may not be the best form of multitasksing
or suit everybody's taste but I'm glad this increased functionality
exists.
David Gelphman  [e-mail]

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Andrew V Jewell)
Subject: Re: Rotation Algorithm needed
Date: 31 Aug 87 11:42:57 GMT
Organization: Center for Automation Research, Univ. of Md.

Your algorithm is correct, just run it backwards. That is for each point
in the destination rectangle, calculate which point in the original maps
to it. Presto! no holes.

As for your speed problem, I think your out of luck. There are three
things I can think of (probobly many I can't) none of which are very
helpful.
1) special cases (30, 45, 90 and such)
2) rotate objects rather than dots if available
3) rather than the sin and cosine functions, use pre-filled arrays
   (e.g. sin[45] instead of sin(45). This only works if you have a
    well defined small domain)

Hope this helps,

     Andy Jewell

disclaimer: I don't really know much about this stuff


------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Mac <-> VMEbus ??
Date: 30 Aug 87 22:45:00 GMT


Does the Mac II version support A32/D32 transfers between the Mac and
the VME?
                Bob Berger

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group    4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE:    617-535-6644;    FAX: [phone];  TWX: [phone]
UUCP:    [e-mail],  ihnp4!datacube!berger
    {seismo,cbosgd,cuae2,mit-eddie}!mirror!datacube!berger


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (R.BRANDI)
Subject: Excel memory limits
Date: 29 Aug 87 15:13:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Middletown NJ

My dad has some 8 meg Mac IIs at work.  When he tried to create a very
large database with the program, it would not address more than 785K of
the memory.  His dealer found out that Excel cannot use more than 1 meg
of memory.  Is there a patch available to bypass this limitation?
Thanks.

Ralph Brandi


    ====      | Disclaimer: Just `cuz I work on the Death Star,
 ==OOO=====   | that doesn't mean I speak for Darth Vader...
=OOOOOOO====  | Ralph Brandi, {ihnp4,mhuxt}!homxb!mtuxo!lzfme!ralph
=OOOOOOO====  | Kopykat (k) 1987, R.A.Brandi
 ==OOO=====   | All Rights Reserved, All Jams Preserved,
    ====      | All Nasty Comments Soundly Deserved...


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Julian Vrieslander)
Subject: Bug in TMON 2.8
Date: 1 Sep 87 04:56:21 GMT
Organization: Cornell Theory Center, Cornell University, Ithaca NY

The new TMON version 2.8 has a rather serious bug that clobbers
clipboard operations.  I first noticed this when copying/pasting between
windows began to fail in LightspeedC.

The folks at ICOM Simulations are aware of the bug.  Evidently it only
occurs when the monitor is loaded by launching the TMON application.  If
you use the TMON Startup init the problem does not occur.

--
Julian Vrieslander    [phone]
Neurobiology & Behavior, W250 Mudd Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca NY 14853
UUCP: {cmcl2,decvax,rochester,uw-beaver,ihnp4}!cornell!batcomputer!eacj
ARPA: [e-mail]     BITNET: eacj@CRNLTHRY


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peter "Arrgh" Korn)
Subject: SIMM RAM for the MacII
Date: 1 Sep 87 05:09:35 GMT
Organization: What, me organized???


A few weeks ago comp.sys.mac saw a discussion of SIMM RAM for the MacII,
with the consensus being that one *had* to use either 120 or 100 ns RAM
SIMMS (which all the new Mac+ and SEs had in 'em anyway).  Well, we
just upgraded our Mac+ to 2 Meg via the DOVE 2H board, and I decided to
put the 256K SIMMs into my MacII.  Trouble was, these SIMMS were the
older 150ns SIMMs.  But, lo and behold, THEY WORKED.  I haven't had a
chance to benchmark 'em, but as far as I can tell, they're causing no
problems.

So, it seems that 150ns DRAMs are perfectly kosher for a MacII.  When I
get a chance, I'll run some timing benchmarks, and re-post those
findings.


Peter

P.S.  The Dove upgrade worked quite well, and I'm very happy with it.  To
      get only 2 Meg out of it (vs. 2.5 Meg), you have to solder a 150 ohm
      resistor onto the motherboard.  After doing that, it works fine.
--
Peter "Arrgh" Korn
[e-mail]
{decvax,dual,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses}!ucbvax!korn

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Tim Maroney)
Subject: Re: HyperCard Availability
Date: 1 Sep 87 05:02:45 GMT
Organization: Centram Systems, Berkeley

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frederick Wamsley)
writes:
>I thought the absence of data structures in Hypertalk was a serious problem
>until one of my coworkers pointed out that a card is a structure, with
>individually addressable fields.
>--
>Fred Wamsley  {dual,hplabs}!well!alcmist;well![e-mail];
>CIS 72247,3130; GEnie FKWAMSLEY;ATT Mail fwamsley; other uucp
>uw-beaver!uw-june!bcsaic!asymet!fred; USPS - why bother?

Yes and no.  First, fields are the HyperCard objects I have the most
trouble with; it doesn't seem to be possible to use "target" in handling
messages to them, passing them actually passes the text so that
resetting them doesn't do anything globally, and if they are used in a
"structured" hidden way, then you have to put in utility scripts to deal
with them conveniently.

Second, it is often neccessary to impose more structure than a per-card
structure.  For instance, suppose you have a number of polygons in a
card. Each polygon is stored as a hidden field that has a list of the
corners, one per line, in x,y (item) format.  So then you can get point
n by saying "line n of field f", and the x of that by saying "item 1 of
line n of field f". What you have are not data structures, but arrays.
Much less powerful, much less readable, much less maintainable.

You can build data structures on top of arrays, but I wouldn't place any
bets on the performance of an *interpreted* system using such
techniques.

What is really needed is an addition of real data structures to the
language.  I think a form letter metaphor would work quite well and be
true to Apple's design goals.
--
Tim Maroney, {ihnp4,sun,well,ptsfa,lll-crg,frog}!hoptoad!tim (uucp)
hoptoad!tim@lll-crg (arpa)


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (The UMD Guy .. )
Subject: Humble Expert System Shell
Date: 31 Aug 87 16:21:32 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis

I am interested in hearing from anyone who is using Smalltalk/Humble
particularly (especially) on a Mac.  A few questions:

     Is one meg of memory enough?
     Are there any bugs that can't be worked around?
        (e.g. Tracing forward and backwards for rule explanation)
     Does Humble integrate with any other packages, if so, which?


   Thanks in advance ..

    -Jeff


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Spencer W. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Rotation Algorithm needed
Date: 1 Sep 87 15:50:47 GMT
Organization: Univ of Utah CS Dept


There are several algorithms for doing this, all based on a "scanline"
method.  The basic idea is to skew the image first in the X direction,
then in the Y direction.  You can accomplish a rotation up to 45deg with
this technique.  To get rotations > 45 degrees, you first rotate by a
multiple of 90 (easily accomplished).  Some references:
    Catmull, E. and Smith, A.R., "3-D Transformations of Images in
    Scanline Order", Computer Graphics, Vol 14, No 3, July 1980
    (SIGGRAPH '80 Conference Proceedings).

    Fant, K., "A Nonaliasing, Real-Time Spatial Transform
    Technique", IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications, January
    1986, (See also Letters to the Editor, IEEE CG&A, March 1986
    and July 1986.)

    Paeth, A., "A Fast Algorithm for General Raster Rotation",
    Graphics Interface '86 Proceedings, May 1986.

I will attempt a picture demonstrating the technique:

..............                      ..............           ....
.            .                     .         .           .    ...
.            .      X skew           .         .  Y skew  ..        ...
.            .      ------>      .            .   -----> .             ...
.            .             .              .          ...               ..
.            .            .             .              ...           ..
..............             ..............                  ...       .

=Spencer   ({ihnp4,decvax}!utah-cs!thomas, [e-mail])

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